jabberwockypie:

bluemaskedkarma:

sl-walker:

bluemaskedkarma:

sl-walker:

Nightbrothers are slaves, for labor, breeding or fighting.  Anakin is a former slave.

How does this inform Anakin’s responses to the Nightbrothers when he finds this out and after?  Does he even notice this commonality?  Why does he continue to de’humanize’, for lack of a better term, the two Nightbrothers they’re tracking?

Thoughts?

I’m going to agree with a lot of what’s already been said? Anakin isn’t a horrible person at the core, tbh, in my head. But he honestly just doesn’t care unless it has a huge personal impact on him. Selective empathy, selective hearing, selective recall on facts, he only remembers events that paint him in a good light, etc. Most of it, I think, is that he’s self-absorbed and has been built up by Palpatine and not called out by the Jedi like he should have. (All Jedi, not just Obi-Wan, mind you. They were all watching him pretty damned close, not just Obi-Wan, they should have been all over their “Chosen One” for his bullshit attitude).

How it impacts Nightbrothers–yes, the racism against other non-humanoids. Also, again, he got out, why didn’t they if they were so against it, they have the Force. Clearly they should be able to solve their own problems as well. It’s, again, the thoughtlessness and lack of true empathy.

A lot of an argument can be made that Anakin overcompensates on his own ego?  Because the Jedi rejected, then accepted him, but then Obi-Wan was critical and harsh with him.  And Padmé enabled a lot of his worse impulses while trying to support him, at the same time.  But yeah, he is kind of self-absorbed, not like even intentionally cruel, but just such a mental disaster of push-pull influences.

I’m not even sure what to DO with Anakin and I hate writing the brat because he is such a disaster. Yes, the rejected-accepted-but-not-really-accepted really screwed with your head and I can see the overblowing of his ego, but then you have Palps gaslighting him, and starting YOUNG. And yes, you have Obi-Wan messing up there too (but the Council screwed up there too–I am not absolving Obi of his guilt in Anakin’s headfuckery–by breathing down Obi’s neck), and they only really managed to figure shit out…during the Clone Wars.

Which, really? You numbnuts become friends when you’re blowing shit up and having people die by the hundreds around you. WOW. Let’s not examine that.

I think, to a degree, some of Anakin’s worst aspects were solidified as a kid in a form of protection from being a slave. Self-absorption or self-defense? And even being a Jedi, with the pushback he would have gotten, would have only made him harden those defenses (making anyone trying to reach him … fail). And yes, ooooh boy did Padme enable the shit out of him. ATOC is horrifying to watch just based on that. I think they enabled each other, almost? I dunno. I side-eye that relationship a little, but hope that if given the time it would have become something healthy (because it ain’t during TCW!!). 

But yes, overall, he is in the center of everything going push-pull and it does screw with you. Not a pass, but an interesting character study. 

Okay, here’s the thing.

I will be quoting from this whole thread, because there’s a lot to say.

Anakin Skywalker was a slave for the first 9 years of his life.

Complex PTSD is horrible and a complete pain in the ass.   It also literally changes the way the brain develops.

Untreated Complex PTSD – and the Jedi really did fuck-all in terms of treatment.  Detachment* is pretty much the POLAR OPPOSITE of what should be done – has lots of fun symptoms, and I say “fun” in the same way that surgery without anesthesia is fun.

C-PTSD is distinct from regular PTSD in that it involves a prolonged situation that one can not escape (or feels one can not escape), as opposed to the single event more characteristic of regular PTSD.  C-PTSD most frequently occurs in cases of child abuse, and your personality literally forms around it.

C-PTSD involves emotional flashbacks, which can be a lot less obvious than the “regular” flashbacks one gets with other types of PTSD.  You get triggered or unconsciously detect a threat – and this can OFTEN be a response to criticism or perceived criticism, or rejection or pereceived rejection – and suddenly you are back at the Worst POSSIBLE emotional place you’ve ever been in, and feeling all of those feelings again and you are STUCK there.  To somebody else, it might just look like you had a weirdly intense emotional response.

*C-PTSD is, in many ways, an attachment disorder.  When a child is unable to form a secure bond with a parent/caregiver, that affects their ability.  Shmi Skywalker did her best, but she was a slave and was unable to protect him, and Anakin could have been sold away from her at any time. There was no security.

A person with C-PTSD from childhood literally never learns the basic lessons of How To Be A Person.   How do you relate to people?  What are boundaries?  How do you Do Feelings?  What are they even FOR, anyway?

Emotional dysregulation is a thing that happens when you have never learned to process feelings.

You’re “self-absorbed” because it’s self-defense.  You have to be hypervigilant of your environment and minute changes in the people around you, or they might hurt you.  If you aren’t, you might die.

“selective empathy, selective hearing, selective recall on facts, he only remembers events that paint him in a good light, etc.”

C-PTSD can actually impair your ability to record and retrieve memories, especially if they’re painful or dealing with feelings you can’t handle. If you don’t know how to process the emotions, or you can’t handle them, your brain hides them from you. Processing emotions is a LEARNED SKILL. If nobody ever modeled How To Handle Feelings for you, that is a PROBLEM.

@deadcatwithaflamethrower can attest that if I’m having a flashback (which often happens when I’m really upset), time sort of blurs and I don’t remember chunks of what happened. It fucking sucks. I’m improving, but it’s with intensive therapy, the likes of which is not provided by the canonical Jedi Order.

But show me the relationships in Anakin’s life where people express
love and affection for him?  There’s Padme.  His mother, who he was separated from and who died horribly.  SORT OF
Obi-Wan, but that’s all tangled up and confused with Obi-Wan’s own
trauma and dilemma of “How do I be a good Jedi?” and so on. Is it any wonder that he latches on to Padme like an octopus? Aside from his mother, who he’s been isolated from, NOBODY has ever shown consistently that they care about him.

How the FUCK do you develop empathy when few people have ever
consistently shown it to you? People are not BORN knowing How
Relationships Work and How To People.

Let’s talk about dissociation!

In simple terms, dissociation happens when you are unable to handle the feelings and events that are happening, so your brain takes you away from the thing happening.  Which is really helpful in terms of “not dying because something horrific happened and you can not physically escape” but is significantly less helpful when you are forced to rely on it constantly, or when it happens in response to a trigger in a situation that is not ACTUALLY harmful.  It also affects your memory, hugely.

Given the way Vader later behaves as if Anakin Skywalker was a completely different person (”That name no longer has any meaning for me”), I believe he was already accustomed to dissociation as a survival mechanism WELL the end of Revenge of the Sith when he was turned into Vader.  (This is also why Dissociative identity Disorder generally develops in children of a certain age range who experience prolonged, extensive trauma.)

Dissociation is ACTIVELY cutting yourself off from your feelings. (Also, recovery from long-term dissociation can involve emotional outbursts of inappropriate intensity while you’re learning how to feel them again. ASK ME HOW I KNOW.)

Most of it, I think, is that he’s self-absorbed and has been built up
by Palpatine and not called out by the Jedi like he should have.

What you are describing is grooming behavior, period. Palpatine does the textbook creepy example of “I know you’re really SPECIAL and AMAZING and SMART, unlike those OTHER people” to a person who has been starved for affection and positive reinforcement, and it works perfectly.  This person would, in return, do just about anything for one of the only people who doesn’t treat them like they’re scum. There’s a REASON that the classic abuse tactics are classics.

A lot of an argument can be made that Anakin overcompensates on his own
ego?  Because the Jedi rejected, then accepted him, but then Obi-Wan was
critical and harsh with him.  And Padmé enabled a lot of his worse
impulses while trying to support him, at the same time.

It isn’t about EGO. It’s about “I only have value if I can do this thing well, and I must constantly prove I have worth”, it’s about acceptance that is completely CONDITIONAL and never feeling that you can find your footing.  It’s about a constant fear of rejection.

I really don’t think “enabling” is the appropriate word to use here with Padme, either. Recovering from C-PTSD to the extent Anakin has it takes a metric fuckton of love, support, and acceptance. You WILL do abusive behaviors, PERIOD, because that’s what you know and you’re fumbling to figure out How To Be A Person. Ideally, that shit gets DISCUSSED and there’s work to improve and handle the issue in better ways. But there was a war brewing, there are apparently no therapists in a Galaxy Far Far Away, and all kinds of other shit and manipulative bastard Sith Lords and so on.

“Which, really? You numbnuts become friends when you’re blowing shit up and having people die by the hundreds around you. WOW. Let’s not examine that.“

I’m going to point out here that Obi-Wan Kenobi ALSO has plenty of reasons to have C-PTSD because the Jedi are shit at dealing with emotions.  We generally consider putting a 12-year-old in a war-zone to be a BAD thing for their mental health, yes?

“And even being a Jedi, with the pushback he would have gotten, would
have only made him harden those defenses (making anyone trying to reach
him … fail).”

Are we REALLY going to blame the traumatized. brain-damaged 9-year-old for not knowing how to connect to people?  Or the same kid at 15 or 20 who still has never had a chance to Learn To Be A Person? Never in a normal, stable, HEALTHY environment with anyone who thought “Hey, maybe feelings are important”?

Anakin never really Got Out of the abusive situation.  Sure, he stopped being called a slave after he was 9, but the Jedi Order wasn’t willing to acknowledge his trauma and that it needed treatment and support, and with Attachments Are Forbidden as their watchword, with their constant disapproval and rejection, they made it SO MUCH WORSE.

^^^^ THIS.